My SO received an email the other day: “Fwd: Mu$lim pu$$y”.
Except, it wasn’t from a spambot, but from a friend of ours. (He’s married to one of my lifelong friends from olden times.) A middle-class, middle-aged, well educated (=should know better) inner-suburban professional dad.
The attachment was a powerpoint presentation, so I’ll just do a digest of it for you here, shall I?
(Slide 1) Text:
“In case you were wondering what a Muslim pu$$y looks like…”
(Slide 2): This.
(Slide 3) Text only:
“Oh, come on! What were you thinking? Get your mind out of the gutter!”
Oh, how I laughed. You can imagine.
What was interesting was the list of email addresses in the forwarded email. Unless he was using “bcc” for some people and not for others, he was only forwarding it to certain members of the family – all male. His partner’s brothers, who work and study with indigenous and Timorese communities and are probably somewhat to the left of him, didn’t receive it. None of the female members of the family received it. What does that suggest to you? It suggests to me that he understood very well what the “jokey” powerpoint was saying.
Let’s just unpack a few of the hilarious concepts in this wonderfully witty artefact.
Muslims = suicide bombers.
We can humiliate people of another ethnicity by humiliating “their” women.
Because women are “owned” by the people (who are presumed to be dudes) of the other ethnicity.
We are at war with all Muslims. Humiliating (up to and including raping) “their” women is a legitimate war tactic. (Oh, and we also accuse them of having medieval thought processes!)
It’s OK to verbally bully an entire ethnic group in my society, which is already undergoing considerable hardship (suspicion, false imprisonment, hijabs ripped off in the street, rocks thrown) because of the actions of a criminal minority.
I’m sure you can add more to that. Of course, I’m used to seeing this stuff on the intertubes. But on a blog or forum you can see that the writer is a known wingnut, or if it’s an anonymous commenter I tend to set the poster’s age at 23 or less and picture the receding brow, pimples and cheezel dust (that’s Australian for cheeto dust). Guess what I’m doing? Yes, I’m falling victim to the urge to stereotype, just like the authors of that powerpoint. It’s still a jolt to be reminded of the underground river of misogyny and racism that still informs Western society to a far greater extent than the bum-fluff and Grand Theft Auto set. It’s your workmate, it’s that inoffensive suit over there, it’s the nice professional looking woman. It rears its head whenever we have a family barbeque. It’s everywhere.
So you know what I did? I did just what the originators of the email (sucks be to them) would have wanted me to do: I forwarded it on! To Twisty, Feministe, Shakesville, Hoyden and a few others. Thanks to Jill for mentioning it and for googling the above image, so I didn’t have to – as she said, not enjoyable.
Now for the less fun part: having a little talk with my friend’s husband next time we get together.
.
Nick Possum
Uncensor
Comments (97)
Muslims = suicide bombers.
- Some muslims are suicide bombers; some other muslims celebrate the first group and name streets after the first group; and a third group thinks the first 2 groups are insane.
We can humiliate people of another ethnicity by humiliating “their” women.
- Are you assuming the cat is female? The costume looks less like a female arabic costume than a recycled Lawrence of Arabia costume. I can’t identify the sex of the cat from this angle.
We are at war with all Muslims. Humiliating (up to and including raping) “their” women is a legitimate war tactic.
– I think that far, far, far fewer people than you think see rape as a legitimate war tactic. And an even smaller group supports cat rape under any circumstances.
It’s OK to verbally bully an entire ethnic group in my society, which is already undergoing considerable hardship…
- Verbally bully with an image? Could you explain how a cat in a costume based on a costume worn by a member of a group bullies the group? And you think (group x) undergoes hardship so therefore (group x) is off limits? So, you would find a cat in a Darth Vader costume offensive/ bullying to prosthetic wearers.
Finally, I’m disappointed that you didn’t recognize the oppression and humiliation cats face on a daily basis from living in a speciesist power structure and that those root causes could drive any cat to such desperate action. It’s probably the lack of education and the grinding poverty that has led it to such extreme measures.
Puhlease. Get over yourself. I thought it was pretty funny.
Well duh. I hate to break it to you: most guys talk about women amongst themselves in ways that would probably horrify their wives. It’s what we do. Secret Men’s Business. Not sexist; just a blokey thing.
Wow, am I happy that I don’t know you!
[Hey - mutual, piggsy. Quelle coincidence! -CIBalcony.]
What a sad take on an email. Some people love to play the role of the victim. They complain about racism, chauvinism, whatever.
Believe it or not lady, the whole world is not out to get you. Neither are most men including your girlfriend’s guy. By the way what’s up with SO. Significant other? Wow, way to dehumanize your MALE spouse. At least I assume it’s a male.
Anyway I hate to end on a negative note. So I won’t GREAT photo of that kitty kitty.
I think the “Muslim Pussy” is male. Slow news day?
I agree with the others here. It was funny. I laughed out loud.
You might want to work on obtaining that funny bone. Comes in handy sometimes.
most guys talk about women amongst themselves in ways that would probably horrify their wives. It’s what we do. Secret Men’s Business. Not sexist; just a blokey thing.
*Whistling sound as the entire point goes over Mugwump’s head* – but that’s just what I’d expect.
What do you think sexism is?
Absolutely hilarious. Not the cat so much as the twittering and prissy hand-waving offended-ness. Develop a humor gland.
Sexism is what feminists do.
It’s systematic misandry turned into an ideology.
Thus for example, Helen characterises “guys talking about women among themselves” as evil, while she probably thinks that women talking about guys among themselves is liberating.
This, of course, is discrimination based on sex — or sexism.
Dudes, dudettes, you’re forgetting that a joke has to actually be funny.
If you are holding this lame effort and your own mediocre efforts to be the height of teh funny, you need to get out to the comedy festival and find out what funny means. However, you are providing me with much entertainment with your unintentional gaffes. (Su, you’re right – they’re proving my point with every comment aren’t they.)
I’m off to make more popcorn.
Helen, as to “my breath-taking hypocrisy”, I make no apology for holding humans in higher regard than a car and mother Gaia.
If you and your dog fell into a lake and began to drown I would make no apology for attempting to save you first. I couldn’t care less if you or your dog were wearing a burkha. It would’t matter if you responded with a hissy fit and called me every name under the sun or screamed at me to get the dog.
If that’s your idea of hypocrisy then deal with it.
Another boring, predictable platitude off the shelf of feminist theory mills that, sadly, only continues to condemn the modern Western feminist in fragile Victiorian sensibilities and absolute lack of imagination. It takes a peculiar perspective, and only with the greatest and most careful effort, to be so unoriginal. Specifically, it takes a white, European, feminist perspective to imagine that a single, very specific Western feminist speaks for all feminsts in the world. Some even say such cultural imperialist tendencies, is genetically encoded in Caucasian blood, and that its attempt to impose its sexual hangups onto non-Western cultures that have a totally different relationship with the human body is only natural.
wiki does a good enough job:
By this definition blokey banter is not sexist.
You feminists need to understand something: blokes talk about your tits not because we think thats all you’re good for, it’s because we find it difficult to think about anything else.
What Su said.
I agree with the sane commenters upthread. The kitty’s cute, the costumes’ a hoot, but the real comedy is the tut-tutting, moral preening, anti-male bigotry, and self-indulgent snobbery by the womyns on this here thread.
You, and your comments, are hysterical. Come to think of it “hysterical” is derived from a Greek word meaning womb. Something about this behavior being associated with womyn. In this case, they were right…
I see you got blessed by the Blairelzebub stick, Helen – ain’t it fun when the anonymous flying monkies descend on cue! Obedient little chaps and chappettes, aren’t they.
Righteo, go back to your corner cubicles and your sad little desks, back to those disappointing little jobs you got stuck in, my pretties. TB’ll set you on another url soon enough, and you shall leap fearlessly once again into cyberspace behind your masks and capes…
Well-trained muppets, ain’t they, H?!
Nice post, dude. Now go and take a long hot shower…
Jack Robertson
[Address courageously supplied in contrast with cowardly troll army, but identifying details deleted due to fears the cheezel-dusted ones may prank him or otherwise make nuisances of themselves. Sorry Jack, I appreciate it but my blog etc...CIBalcony]
Suburb, NSW
02 xxxx xxxx
PS: Band jammed again yesterday (finally), that Tele I was working on sounds awesome (if I do say so myself). Next time you’re in Sydney bring your sticks, chicky-babe. Our drummer’s a nice bloke but sometimes I think he thinks the snare’s made of fookin’ crystal, iykwim…
tasteless certainly, but I do believe Saint has a point. The world is just chock-a-block with this kind of crapola. I’m amazed that anybody would bother taking the time & effort to dress the cat up, let alone take it’s photo and start a viral email. Frankly, it’s a mark of the intellect if that’s all the originator has to do with their time. The real indictment falls on those who (a) think it’s funny enough to propagate, and (b) those who wish to make excuses for them. Evidence Blair & his troop of trained aerial simians.
I support your stand, and don’t believe for a nano-second you’re at all feminist in your criticism. You’ve narked an idiot or idiots, and for that, you deserve plaudits.
Very well, observed, Jack. Yes, some of us found this link via Tim Blair.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that: it seems to me that if someone posts something in a public forum, they’re inviting comment from people who disagree with them.
If they didn’t want such comment, then they would probably say it in a private email and not send it to people unlikely to appreciate it.
Of course, there’s always the risk of someone making private email public, but then we all understand how rude that is, don’t we?
James
(hi helen, here to haunt you, promise I won’t talk about timber).
But oh my goodness, what a fun mess of a thread. Aren’t tim blair’s drones a nice bunch? What is it with conservatives and shrill hateful invective?
Mugwump: most guys talk about women amongst themselves in ways that would probably horrify their wives. It’s what we do. Secret Men’s Business. Not sexist; just a blokey thing.
As helen’s already said, you’re really just justifying sexism. But I would like to defend the honour of the enormous number of men that just don’t talk like sexist pigs, because they’re mature enough to understand that words have meaning, and can offend.
I wouldn’t get my knickers in a knot over the email, but I would think that the person who sent it to me was a bit of a tool. Not necessarily racist/anti-islamic or sexist, but more likely than not, and if not, then pretty unthinking.
Fortunately, no one sends me that kinda shit.
Reading this post and the ensuing comments is slightly painful. Helen, you are a champion, honestly.
Do please let us know how your conversation goes, and good luck!
Wow. I’ve never seen someone attempt a Klein bottle argument before.
Jeezus Jack I used to live at xxx xxxxxx St!
There’s a special place in hell for antifeminists, of whom there are a few further back in the thread, who have never done anything whatever for women of colour or any of them for that matter, who like to cite the treatment of middle eastern / african women by their families to score some kind of point. They’re the same ones who pretended that that was the reason for the invasion of Iraq, after the WMD and Saddam/AQ links had been revealed as the will o’ the wisps that they were. How the hell this translates into a licence to publish hate material about muslims is beyond me, as the women themselves constitute about 50% of the muslim population, as they do in ours. And how a PPS purporting to show you a glimpse of “Mu$lim pu$$y” is supportive of Muslim women, well, the logic involved would have to be more convoluted than Tigtog’s Klein bottle.
Do we have a full bingo card yet?
Helen,I think it`s a case of “different strokes”.People find things funny that you don`t,no biggie.Your blog states that you are “opinionated”well so are a lot of people and we all differ ,sums up life really.
well you opened a can of worms with this one! I can’t be bothered reading all the comments. I find this more offensive as a woman than as a Muslim. It’s sad that derogatory jokes about women’s genitalia are so common that people are now blind to the implicit sexism. It does seem that your friend’s husband was not however…but sent it on anyway.
As a Muslim, I’m so used to this stuff, not to condone it, but I find it easier to understand why people use it as humour, than why female sexuality has to be debased…bad sentence..anyway, I’m tired, goodnight!
[Hope this didn't make you feel too bad, Saha - I've taken the liberty of munging your email and URL a little as there are some nasty trolls here and I don't want them over at your place. Cheers! CIBalcony]
Um, Mr “Club Wah”, I have no desire to publish or read your doubtless witty riposte. I know it’s dressed as a male sheik, maroon; the misogynist part was in the way the whole PPS was set up, including the text, not just the image. I stepped through it in the post, but evidently you did not understand. Therefore,
*Plonk*
goodbye!
‘James B’, I…
*runs out of further interest in anonymous Blairmuppets*
‘Caroline’, how long ago?
Saha, it’s only your dirty mind that makes you think it had anything to do with female genitalia. It’s about a cat, a male cat, possibly an albino with high sensitivity to sunlight and perhaps a digestive problem as it’s carrying so much bog roll.
All in the interpretation I guess.
“Now for the less fun part: having a little talk with my friend’s husband next time we get together.”
If I were the husband, I’d give you a good spanking and send you on your way.
Again, for all the rabid feminazis and neutered softcocks who don’t seem to geddit: don’t confuse sexism with horniness. Whether I respect you in the morning has everything to do with what’s between your ears. But tonight I am more interested in what’s between your legs.
It’s biological.
“Tyga”, please see reply to “Club Wah”; I’m not sure how long I can put up with trying to explain something that people wilfuly refuse to understand.
Jack / Caroline, that is so cool. Quelle coincidence. I am prone to weird coincidences like that, so as a committed anti-superstition person I really have to be vigilant!
Hmmm now that I think about it, it was the same number, different a street, in the ‘Loo.
I did live ‘on the street where you live’ Jack, it was a terrace numbering in the one seventies sometime in the mid-eighties.
The area was still a bit of a libertarian/bohemian locale back in those days I’m told, Caroline, sprinkled with sundry biker, wharfie and ALP hardcase cliques. It’s a lovely part of the world still.
Ta re: deleting the address, H. Too much information from me anyway, as usual. S’just that internet anonymity = extreme boredom for me these days. Mildly amusing that some muppets apparently still think it’s ‘anti-PC’ intellectual subversion to spout boorish sub-Hitchenisms online from behind a pseudonym, but. It was already lame enough on September 12 2001, but…seven fricking years later, some wannabe Burchills are only just discovering the dubious joys of poo-ing behind the altar at midnight?
Please. No doubt the illiterate nobbers think it’s ironic or something.
Nt vrthng n lf s dsgnd t hv scl mpct.
ts fnny pctre f ct.
Gt lffmbts.
Bored now.
Fair enough for not publishing my blog address, it was a bit pretentious of me to do that. I just thought it fair you knew what I wrote about you that’s all, as it was too long to put here.
The fact you realised the car wasn’t dressed as a female makes your message all the more puzzling – it’s not clear in your post. The only link with women was the word pussy, and that was purely a play on words to make the recipient think they had received porn. I’ve seen several variations of the theme including “hairy pussy” which had a ridiculously furry cat.
If anything it was offensive to all Muslims, not just women.
That said I reckon this post is getting emailed around more than the original Mu$lim Pu$$Y email.
then find us another funny picture
Helen, it may be because what offends you is completely invented by your own mind. The email relies on people having a “dirty mind” with regards to the pussy reference, perhaps it is that it caught you out that upsets you most? I don’t see where it is sexist or racist. It doesn’t mention or depict women at all. It’s a cat wearing a male arabian headdress and a mock bomb belt. How is that sexist? Some Muslims might not like it much but Muslims are not a race so its not racist either. Then again they might be best served being offended by those who are strapping on bomb belts in the name of their religion rather than crappy email pictures and newspaper cartoons.
Methinks you went to a special effort to be offended by this one, but whatever floats your boat I suppose. Some people are not happy unless they have something to whinge about.
Good luck telling off your friend’s husband about the email, I hope he laughs in your face and forwards you the “shaved pussy” email from the same genre!
Ohh, the cat thread goes on (meow meow).
I had a bit of a titter (titter – tee hee – tit – tee hee and all that) at the fundamentalist zealot pussy cat. Wasn’t offended by it. Mind you, as the owner of a cat, I don’t know how the owners got it to stay still long enough. Perhaps a Christian fundamentalist cat could have a fat arse, be wearing a bad suit and sport an expression that says: “I must not think about sex; oh my gawd, I thought about sex, I’m going to hell”. Perhaps a cat posing as the kind of boy blogger who likes to use terms like “feminazi” and says “feminists have got no sense of humour” (wow, I’ve never heard that one before) could have a fat arse, be wearing a bad suit etc etc A couple of the boys on this thread were obviously having a bit of wank while posting their comments. Others one can just feel sad about, but I’m sure their mums will give them a cup of tea and a Bex. mugwump is just trying way too hard. I’ve tried to get my cat’s picture on LOLcats, but she just doesn’t do anything funny enough (grrr, she’s TEH FEMINIST).
Is the fat hate an essential component of the fundy/misogynist-baiting?
Sorry, I am not sure if lauredhel’s comment is in response to mine.
“Hate” is a rather strong word to use (the overuse of certain words – e.g. Nazi – can make such words meaningless). It’s a satirical dig (you know, at the idea that all fundies from America’s South are obese). Fundamentalists of all faiths and beliefs can be anything from murderous to annoying. This people are in dire need of being satirised.
However, the idea that all Muslims are the same or that all evangelical Christians are the same is, of course, a nonsense.
At any rate, I’ve got plenty of junk in my trunk.
I’m the first to admit that I’m not always able to identify sexist themes and am still learning as I go. That just means that I do often need to hear a female perspective (often more than one) to try to understand how specific instances of jokes or attitudes or comments are possibly offensive. That’s because I accept that in some ways socialisation has caused some level of tone deafness in me at times as a bloke.
I clicked through to this blog (not this post) because I like to visit here from time to time (so I haven’t seen this reported elsewhere, nor have I gone elsewhere to see other takes on it).
First I saw the picture and laughed. Mostly I think it was the madness of the thing: who would go to such trouble and also the contrast of a suicide bomber with the epitome of benign: a cat. Insane juxtaposition.
Then I read the posted entry and it made me think and wonder.
Then I read all the comments and admit that I have not come to any definite conclusions as to how to take the email.
Then I read the email subject line again….and the first slide.
And now it occurs to me that in Australia, this sort of forwarded email will be more offensive to women because we don’t generally have the same double meaning of pussy as they do in the States. Here it is always (well, in most forwarded email and adult commentary on the interweb situations anyway) a reference to a vagina [when it's not, you know, in ref. to a feline perambulator].
In the States, pussy is often used interchangeably with wimp. So we have most of the puns revolving around a very very very small section of the Muslim world – suicide bombers; and the fact that they are, by any other descriptor, gutless and not complete human beings and the polysuch (that’s the implication, not my position).
I just thought I’d point that out. I’m still not sure how I feel about the level and type of response to the (admittedly distasteful and childish) email. With such a huge amount of porn and spam porn around, coopting of the ‘muslim pussy’ title for a fairly lame joke is less objectionable than in cases where that title is used when actual porn is shown or when it is at the end of a click wouldn’t you say?
I disagree with the conclusion that this jokey email is a commentary at all about Muslim women and I’m unable, finally, to see how it amounts to any serious manifestation of sexism beyond it punning on the pornography branch of the internet.
Again, I’m not certain I’m right. I have on occasions in the past been edumacated by women who are able to elaborate how they feel about certain words &c; but I wouldn’t have sent this email to anyone anyways. It’s not benign but I think the emphasis of the joke creator — criticising suicide bombers — is not where those who are offended by this lame-o stunt believe the emphasis to be.
2c
Peacay, I’m firstly confused about your reference to this not being a “serious manifestation of sexism” – there are degrees of sexism now, and people aren’t entitled to feel upset at something that is not “a serious manifestation” of such?
Otherwise, allow me to try and elucidate you as to why the email could be read as sexist:
You’ve hit the nail on the head with the way that “pussy” is configured in Australia society (only, it’s slang for VULVAS, not vaginas – I seriously doubt that references to ‘pussy’ in a sexual context are only talking of a single hole).
However;
how can a piece of disembodied genitalia possibly profess a religion?
It can’t; it’s the human being the genitalia is attached to that claims a religion. So the line “Muslim Pussy” can be read as referring to a Muslim woman.
And in this instance, that woman has been reduced to her genitalia. And that’s it. THAT is sexist. Women are human beings, half the human race. Not just “pussy”, a slang term for part of a woman’s body that is often framed as being solely for the use of men. And that form of sexism has a history in Western culture, that can be most easily traced back to the porn industry (as you again realised, without quite connecting all the dots, I think?).
Thanks for that Aphie. Sorry Peacay I was too busy to reply (I know you’re commenting in good faith unlike some of the above.) Just one point
It’s not benign but I think the emphasis of the joke creator — criticising suicide bombers — is not where those who are offended by this lame-o stunt believe the emphasis to be.
See, the lame-o stunt has several offensive subtexts, not just one, and this one is the equation of muslims = suicide bombers, which is inciting at worst hatred and at best obdurate incomprehension. I think if you live in a place where there are lots of Muslim families peacefully going about their business as I do, it’s easier to see the offence whereas the author of the lame-o stunt maybe lives in a little town in the Midwest and has never met one. Or something. It does appear to be the work of someone who doesn’t consider that the members of an unpopular group may be human beings with lives and feelings, just like him/her.
..as you again realised, without quite connecting all the dots
I guess I take it as given that referring to another human being by their genitals is offensive and sexist. If I appeared to gloss over that it’s simply because I find the nature of this medium to be outrageously overarching in any conversation such as this. By that I mean that this is a drop in the ocean – 25% (or whatever stake the porn industry constitutes) of the internet references women by their genitals – so although I would never say it is fruitless making a good fight over principles, trying to frame that email as being anything other than a tiny crumb of an enormous problem approaches futility in the beating-one’s-head-against-the-wall stakes.
The context of an email sent by someone known to Helen is a different thing entirely and I trust and hope they are beaten on the kidneys with a large stone tablet printout of the email for demonstrating their penchant for the stupid.
I have been fairly involved in huge multi-thread/multi-week discussions about sexism on Metafilter in the last half year** which were about attempting to shape the behaviour of people commenting in a large community setting. It was frustrating, exhilarating, amazing and ultimately, quite positive in the outcome (which will never be permanently perfect but far exceeded the expectations of those of us who cared enough to want to engage). I mention this only because I think it’s instructive in terms of how the debate about sexism gets promulgated online. When the discussion is about the language/behaviour used by regular visitor/commenters on a large website, there is a real hope in my mind that attitudes can be changed for the better. I think a lot of that has/had to do with people getting to understand how (real!) people they ‘know’ express how they feel about others’ behaviour and word choices.
But when an otherwise random email becomes the object of a sexism discussion such as this, I see little opportunity for advancing the debate because, as we see above, it’s all about one’s attitude to words and less about the effect that those words have. I am not suggesting for a second that it’s not a debate worth having nor that Helen ought not to have presented it here; I just suggest that anything other than the expectation of frustration as an end-result is optimistic.
By the way Aphie, I think you have it ass about. The porn industry didn’t create the sexist language: “muslim pussy” “brunette pussy” etc etc. They’ve just exploited the lowest common denominator language used by males throughout history. That’s why I – tainted, obviously, by my blokeiness – see the subject line of the email as a pun on the porn industry in the first instant rather than a more serious manifestation of sexism. And yeah, sorry, but I do see grey in most contentious areas of life. The offensiveness to some women of overeager door-opening males is just not in the same league as that male talking to his mates about how many blonde pussies he’s carved notches for.
I’m not even saying I’m agreeing to disagree; as I went to pains to communicate, I admit my comprehension is lacking at times and I regard the subject as an ongoing dialogue rather than positions set in stone.
Helen, I concede that people of Muslim faith would likely find the whole email offensive yes. I don’t agree that it’s saying that Muslim = suicide bomber. It’s saying that a suicide bomber who is Muslim is a wimp Muslim, in my reading of it. But again, I’m surely not arguing that this email is a good thing or that it ought to be forwarded to anyone. I’m merely trying to state how it affects me. I was wrong to note that the intended effect and the actual effect are important distinctions (they can be at times) because any half-wit would know that marrying up pornesque language with negative cultural stereotypes is going to offend a lot of people.
**If you really want to know where my head is at, I use the same nickname at Metafilter where any reasonable searching will turn up my history quite easily. But ask if you want the URLs of the major sexism threads that occurred over there (more than a 1000 comments each though so not for the faint of …. time)
[...] So I discovered last week that I’m clearly starting to make it in the Australian blogosphere: I’d earned my first hatchet job from a real, live Right Wing Death Beast. I was going to just let this one slide, but after he made a complete arse of himself at Ryan’s, I realised just who it was: none other than saint, from the Missing Link collective. I then recalled his racist droppings over at Helen’s place a couple weeks back, and figured that I really couldn’t resist biting. [...]