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	<title>Comments on: Labor can&#8217;t be trusted on reproductive rights</title>
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	<link>http://castironbalcony.media2.org/2008/08/19/labor-cant-be-trusted-on-reproductive-rights/</link>
	<description>A blog by an opinionated mother of two, which might lie idle for a while sometimes. The blog, that is.</description>
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		<title>By: Helen</title>
		<link>http://castironbalcony.media2.org/2008/08/19/labor-cant-be-trusted-on-reproductive-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-6270</link>
		<dc:creator>Helen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 11:13:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://castironbalcony.media2.org/?p=560#comment-6270</guid>
		<description>Medical malpractice is medical malpractice - whether someone treats your little toe incorrectly and it goes gangrenous and drops off, or someone does a &lt;a href=&quot;http://mississippiappendectomy.wordpress.com/2007/12/06/fannie-lou-hamer/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;mississippi appendectomy&lt;/a&gt;. And it&#039;s illegal.  (It sometimes goes unnoticed that pro-choicers support the choice &lt;i&gt;to&lt;/i&gt; give birth as well as to avoid it.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Medical malpractice is medical malpractice &#8211; whether someone treats your little toe incorrectly and it goes gangrenous and drops off, or someone does a <a href="http://mississippiappendectomy.wordpress.com/2007/12/06/fannie-lou-hamer/" rel="nofollow">mississippi appendectomy</a>. And it&#8217;s illegal.  (It sometimes goes unnoticed that pro-choicers support the choice <i>to</i> give birth as well as to avoid it.)</p>
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		<title>By: daiskmeliadorn</title>
		<link>http://castironbalcony.media2.org/2008/08/19/labor-cant-be-trusted-on-reproductive-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-6269</link>
		<dc:creator>daiskmeliadorn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 02:58:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://castironbalcony.media2.org/?p=560#comment-6269</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m afraid I&#039;m late to this, but if anyone&#039;s still kicking around, can you explain to me how option C was going to provide for cases of &quot;out and out medical malpractice&quot; (as Emma says)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m afraid I&#8217;m late to this, but if anyone&#8217;s still kicking around, can you explain to me how option C was going to provide for cases of &#8220;out and out medical malpractice&#8221; (as Emma says)?</p>
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		<title>By: Helen</title>
		<link>http://castironbalcony.media2.org/2008/08/19/labor-cant-be-trusted-on-reproductive-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-6129</link>
		<dc:creator>Helen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://castironbalcony.media2.org/?p=560#comment-6129</guid>
		<description>Absolutely - here&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://castironbalcony.media2.org/?p=468&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my post on the truly disgusting McGauran&lt;/a&gt;.

Oh and welcome to Emma, I&#039;m a reader of your blog, good to see you here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely &#8211; here&#8217;s <a href="http://castironbalcony.media2.org/?p=468" rel="nofollow">my post on the truly disgusting McGauran</a>.</p>
<p>Oh and welcome to Emma, I&#8217;m a reader of your blog, good to see you here.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr S</title>
		<link>http://castironbalcony.media2.org/2008/08/19/labor-cant-be-trusted-on-reproductive-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-6128</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:20:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://castironbalcony.media2.org/?p=560#comment-6128</guid>
		<description>Although option C may well have been preferable, I suspect it was never going to fly. Although public opinion is supportive of abortion on demand, once it crosses into the same weeks of gestation as the &quot;my baby&#039;s a fighter&quot; stories the Herald Sun run once a week the possibility of a scare campaign ruining the whole thing was pretty high. 

In practice, I suspect there will be little hindrance. Most abortion practitioners are not hugely fond of third trimester terminations and would probably be uncomfortable performing them without seeing a need. Not to mention the fact that no-one is going to ask for one without need. Two doctors just means Dr Bev in the next cubicle pops in as well to have a quick chat and commiserate that things have reached such an awful pass before making an extra note in different hand-writing. Then the procedure gets booked, hopefully not less urgently because there is no deadline.

The issue at the moment is that you can go through the head of department, the legal team and the hospital ethics committee with the sworn statement of a psychiatrist that this woman is going to kill herself and still end up in court because a Catholic senator doesn&#039;t like it. Also, there is no legal or procedural obligation for a public health service to provide termination services, witness Bendigo for instance.

Not perfect. Much better. Probably the best possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although option C may well have been preferable, I suspect it was never going to fly. Although public opinion is supportive of abortion on demand, once it crosses into the same weeks of gestation as the &#8220;my baby&#8217;s a fighter&#8221; stories the Herald Sun run once a week the possibility of a scare campaign ruining the whole thing was pretty high. </p>
<p>In practice, I suspect there will be little hindrance. Most abortion practitioners are not hugely fond of third trimester terminations and would probably be uncomfortable performing them without seeing a need. Not to mention the fact that no-one is going to ask for one without need. Two doctors just means Dr Bev in the next cubicle pops in as well to have a quick chat and commiserate that things have reached such an awful pass before making an extra note in different hand-writing. Then the procedure gets booked, hopefully not less urgently because there is no deadline.</p>
<p>The issue at the moment is that you can go through the head of department, the legal team and the hospital ethics committee with the sworn statement of a psychiatrist that this woman is going to kill herself and still end up in court because a Catholic senator doesn&#8217;t like it. Also, there is no legal or procedural obligation for a public health service to provide termination services, witness Bendigo for instance.</p>
<p>Not perfect. Much better. Probably the best possible.</p>
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		<title>By: Emma</title>
		<link>http://castironbalcony.media2.org/2008/08/19/labor-cant-be-trusted-on-reproductive-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-6055</link>
		<dc:creator>Emma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 13:37:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://castironbalcony.media2.org/?p=560#comment-6055</guid>
		<description>Hi Helen, I&#039;m a very occasional lurker here, I admire the words that I get the time to read.

I have been following the new closely on this issue and I was bitterly disappointed to read that our parliamentarians were heading for option B.  To me it&#039;s a sign that our elected representatives, deep, deep down, still don&#039;t trust pregnant women with moral choices.  They don&#039;t trust women at all... not really.... The Greek &quot;wandering womb theories&quot; and the later &quot;hysterical theories&quot; of male physicians left scars that run too deep to be countered in this generation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Helen, I&#8217;m a very occasional lurker here, I admire the words that I get the time to read.</p>
<p>I have been following the new closely on this issue and I was bitterly disappointed to read that our parliamentarians were heading for option B.  To me it&#8217;s a sign that our elected representatives, deep, deep down, still don&#8217;t trust pregnant women with moral choices.  They don&#8217;t trust women at all&#8230; not really&#8230;. The Greek &#8220;wandering womb theories&#8221; and the later &#8220;hysterical theories&#8221; of male physicians left scars that run too deep to be countered in this generation.</p>
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		<title>By: armagny</title>
		<link>http://castironbalcony.media2.org/2008/08/19/labor-cant-be-trusted-on-reproductive-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-6053</link>
		<dc:creator>armagny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 04:34:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://castironbalcony.media2.org/?p=560#comment-6053</guid>
		<description>Hey Anna we should start a new faction ;p

I know Helen, and I feel the same frustration. It&#039;s actually very difficult to find a place in the party if you see yourself more as centre-left than socialist left, but don&#039;t subscribe to social conservatism.

I DO lose sleep over the issue. Although I lose more sleep over crying Bears of course!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Anna we should start a new faction ;p</p>
<p>I know Helen, and I feel the same frustration. It&#8217;s actually very difficult to find a place in the party if you see yourself more as centre-left than socialist left, but don&#8217;t subscribe to social conservatism.</p>
<p>I DO lose sleep over the issue. Although I lose more sleep over crying Bears of course!</p>
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		<title>By: MsLaurie</title>
		<link>http://castironbalcony.media2.org/2008/08/19/labor-cant-be-trusted-on-reproductive-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-6052</link>
		<dc:creator>MsLaurie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:36:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://castironbalcony.media2.org/?p=560#comment-6052</guid>
		<description>Hattie, Australian law is very messy in this area, but the practicality of the situation is that for people with reasonable access to healthcare (i.e. people in metropolitan areas with mulitple health care providers) can generally get an abortion when they require it. 

There is some protesting outside clinics and things, but quite low-key, and they do not get much sympathy from the general public. 

Last year (? or maybe the year before?) a vote in the federal parliament changed the laws to allow for medical abortions to occur, with the end vote being something like 70% in favour of the change. This was broadly seen to reflect public sentiment. 

The anti-choice voices might be noisy, but they are few.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hattie, Australian law is very messy in this area, but the practicality of the situation is that for people with reasonable access to healthcare (i.e. people in metropolitan areas with mulitple health care providers) can generally get an abortion when they require it. </p>
<p>There is some protesting outside clinics and things, but quite low-key, and they do not get much sympathy from the general public. </p>
<p>Last year (? or maybe the year before?) a vote in the federal parliament changed the laws to allow for medical abortions to occur, with the end vote being something like 70% in favour of the change. This was broadly seen to reflect public sentiment. </p>
<p>The anti-choice voices might be noisy, but they are few.</p>
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		<title>By: Hattie</title>
		<link>http://castironbalcony.media2.org/2008/08/19/labor-cant-be-trusted-on-reproductive-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-6047</link>
		<dc:creator>Hattie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 23:27:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://castironbalcony.media2.org/?p=560#comment-6047</guid>
		<description>It sounds as if abortion law in Australia is a mess, which makes me feel very glad for Roe v. Wade. But there is nothing to feel smug about here, since the loonies are working night and day to take away abortion rights in the U.S.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It sounds as if abortion law in Australia is a mess, which makes me feel very glad for Roe v. Wade. But there is nothing to feel smug about here, since the loonies are working night and day to take away abortion rights in the U.S.</p>
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		<title>By: Anna Winter</title>
		<link>http://castironbalcony.media2.org/2008/08/19/labor-cant-be-trusted-on-reproductive-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-6039</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna Winter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 12:33:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://castironbalcony.media2.org/?p=560#comment-6039</guid>
		<description>I agree with all your points. I&#039;m not trying to defend any of that.

My point is that it&#039;s about supporting our pro-choice sisters in the ALP who are doing the really hard yards behind the scenes, and who need our support. It&#039;s about making sure we don&#039;t make the mistake of disappearing them. Just because we don&#039;t see their work, doesn&#039;t mean they aren&#039;t doing it. Talking to the media is often what one does when they aren&#039;t able to do the numbers; it can be a good sign that they aren&#039;t pissing potential supporters off by running non-party lines.

It really shits me when people like Leslie Cannold (whom I admire very much), say such things, when they &lt;em&gt;know&lt;/em&gt; first hand how hard these women are working.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with all your points. I&#8217;m not trying to defend any of that.</p>
<p>My point is that it&#8217;s about supporting our pro-choice sisters in the ALP who are doing the really hard yards behind the scenes, and who need our support. It&#8217;s about making sure we don&#8217;t make the mistake of disappearing them. Just because we don&#8217;t see their work, doesn&#8217;t mean they aren&#8217;t doing it. Talking to the media is often what one does when they aren&#8217;t able to do the numbers; it can be a good sign that they aren&#8217;t pissing potential supporters off by running non-party lines.</p>
<p>It really shits me when people like Leslie Cannold (whom I admire very much), say such things, when they <em>know</em> first hand how hard these women are working.</p>
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		<title>By: Why I haven&#8217;t blogged on the Victorian abortion decriminalisation bill at Hoyden About Town</title>
		<link>http://castironbalcony.media2.org/2008/08/19/labor-cant-be-trusted-on-reproductive-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-6033</link>
		<dc:creator>Why I haven&#8217;t blogged on the Victorian abortion decriminalisation bill at Hoyden About Town</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 02:51:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://castironbalcony.media2.org/?p=560#comment-6033</guid>
		<description>[...] Because Helen at Cast Iron Balcony covered all the issues so well that I had nothing to add - read it there. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Because Helen at Cast Iron Balcony covered all the issues so well that I had nothing to add &#8211; read it there. [...]</p>
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