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	<title>Comments on: The Home ATM is out of order #2: Thinking about schools</title>
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	<link>http://castironbalcony.media2.org/2009/04/14/the-home-atm-is-out-of-order-2-thinking-about-schools/</link>
	<description>A blog by an opinionated mother of two, which might lie idle for a while sometimes. The blog, that is.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 05 Nov 2011 09:56:23 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Helen</title>
		<link>http://castironbalcony.media2.org/2009/04/14/the-home-atm-is-out-of-order-2-thinking-about-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-8194</link>
		<dc:creator>Helen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 11:45:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://castironbalcony.media2.org/?p=634#comment-8194</guid>
		<description>Another happy Canberarrian. I love your blogname, Jet!
And thanks, Chally!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another happy Canberarrian. I love your blogname, Jet!<br />
And thanks, Chally!</p>
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		<title>By: Jet</title>
		<link>http://castironbalcony.media2.org/2009/04/14/the-home-atm-is-out-of-order-2-thinking-about-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-8193</link>
		<dc:creator>Jet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 10:00:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://castironbalcony.media2.org/?p=634#comment-8193</guid>
		<description>Great post, and interesting comments. 

I did high school and college in Canberra, and for the most part had good experiences ... though my high school was on the rough side. I loved the public school college system, as distinct from the high school system in the rest of the country. It treated students as able to make their own decisions, which made for a much more enjoyable final two years than they might otherwise have been.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, and interesting comments. </p>
<p>I did high school and college in Canberra, and for the most part had good experiences &#8230; though my high school was on the rough side. I loved the public school college system, as distinct from the high school system in the rest of the country. It treated students as able to make their own decisions, which made for a much more enjoyable final two years than they might otherwise have been.</p>
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		<title>By: The Twelfth Down Under Feminists Carnival &#171; Zero at the Bone</title>
		<link>http://castironbalcony.media2.org/2009/04/14/the-home-atm-is-out-of-order-2-thinking-about-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-8192</link>
		<dc:creator>The Twelfth Down Under Feminists Carnival &#171; Zero at the Bone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 07:19:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://castironbalcony.media2.org/?p=634#comment-8192</guid>
		<description>[...] AnneE at Elsewoman writes a brief and pointed post about race, gender and unemployment in New Zealand. Here’s a thoughtful post from Helen from Blogger on the Cast Iron Balcony. It’s called The Home ATM is out of order #2: Thinking about schools and is on home equity, education and the economy in Australia. At The Radical Radish, rayedish talks about Australia’s wage gap and an opportunity for discussion that just shouldn’t have been missed. Presenting Can we talk about this (wage gap) civilly, please?. Race [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] AnneE at Elsewoman writes a brief and pointed post about race, gender and unemployment in New Zealand. Here’s a thoughtful post from Helen from Blogger on the Cast Iron Balcony. It’s called The Home ATM is out of order #2: Thinking about schools and is on home equity, education and the economy in Australia. At The Radical Radish, rayedish talks about Australia’s wage gap and an opportunity for discussion that just shouldn’t have been missed. Presenting Can we talk about this (wage gap) civilly, please?. Race [...]</p>
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		<title>By: armagny</title>
		<link>http://castironbalcony.media2.org/2009/04/14/the-home-atm-is-out-of-order-2-thinking-about-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-8149</link>
		<dc:creator>armagny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 03:23:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://castironbalcony.media2.org/?p=634#comment-8149</guid>
		<description>&amp;Duck, noted. In return I offer you R.... for a private school that sounds like its generally friendly and balanced.

&quot;I hated school, and it took me several years of uni to recover from it, which is why I feel a little ill at the idea of sending the kid to school at all. &quot;

D&#039;accord.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&amp;Duck, noted. In return I offer you R&#8230;. for a private school that sounds like its generally friendly and balanced.</p>
<p>&#8220;I hated school, and it took me several years of uni to recover from it, which is why I feel a little ill at the idea of sending the kid to school at all. &#8221;</p>
<p>D&#8217;accord.</p>
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		<title>By: Helen</title>
		<link>http://castironbalcony.media2.org/2009/04/14/the-home-atm-is-out-of-order-2-thinking-about-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-8148</link>
		<dc:creator>Helen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 19:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://castironbalcony.media2.org/?p=634#comment-8148</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;But I find that ’suicidal’ thing in the second article very offensive and over-reactive: surely public school with a parent is *infinitely* better than private school and dead-parent trauma? Makes me feel ill, truly. &lt;/i&gt; 
It is quite OTT and silly, isn&#039;t it? It makes me angry that some people have got to this stage. At bottom it&#039;s commercial marketing, kicked along by a conservative government, but as Monty Python says you are dealing with human life. Not products on a shelf.

Thing is, a lot of the problems are caused by middle class flight and, I think, that will go a long way to improving matters if a mass movement back to public does happen. (Remember it&#039;s my speculation.) But it&#039;s sad to think how her fears are so OTT.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>But I find that ’suicidal’ thing in the second article very offensive and over-reactive: surely public school with a parent is *infinitely* better than private school and dead-parent trauma? Makes me feel ill, truly. </i><br />
It is quite OTT and silly, isn&#8217;t it? It makes me angry that some people have got to this stage. At bottom it&#8217;s commercial marketing, kicked along by a conservative government, but as Monty Python says you are dealing with human life. Not products on a shelf.</p>
<p>Thing is, a lot of the problems are caused by middle class flight and, I think, that will go a long way to improving matters if a mass movement back to public does happen. (Remember it&#8217;s my speculation.) But it&#8217;s sad to think how her fears are so OTT.</p>
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		<title>By: ampersand duck</title>
		<link>http://castironbalcony.media2.org/2009/04/14/the-home-atm-is-out-of-order-2-thinking-about-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-8147</link>
		<dc:creator>ampersand duck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 13:06:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://castironbalcony.media2.org/?p=634#comment-8147</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a bit torn on this issue. We&#039;re at that cusp of primary to high school, and we&#039;ve had a really frustrating time with the public primary school that Bumblebee has gone to (Armagny, it&#039;s in the inner north, starting with L. Do NOT go there.) We&#039;ve heard good &amp; bad things in alternate years about the local high school, and now find ourselves making decisions based on not just public or private education, but on issues we think are important, like proximity and community. We have a Catholic college with a reasonable reputation very close to us, and we think it might be a good option (even though neither of us &#039;does&#039; religion) for his needs at the moment. But if the fees get too much for us, I wouldn&#039;t think twice about sending him to the public high school. The private fees will be a struggle, but not as much as for other &#039;independent&#039; schools in the region -- that word makes me laugh, truly, when you factor in how much of our taxes go to them -- but I&#039;m doing this because the school is close and I think he&#039;s strong enough to deal with having second-hand uniforms in exchange for some of their facilities. Our lives will be enriched by the extra time we all get to spend together and the reduction in worrying about ferrying and lifts. I wouldn&#039;t send him off in a bus way across town to give him &#039;the best&#039;. Maybe I&#039;m just lucky having two good schools, public and private, to choose from. But I find that &#039;suicidal&#039; thing in the second article very offensive and over-reactive: surely public school with a parent is *infinitely* better than private school and dead-parent trauma? Makes me feel ill, truly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a bit torn on this issue. We&#8217;re at that cusp of primary to high school, and we&#8217;ve had a really frustrating time with the public primary school that Bumblebee has gone to (Armagny, it&#8217;s in the inner north, starting with L. Do NOT go there.) We&#8217;ve heard good &amp; bad things in alternate years about the local high school, and now find ourselves making decisions based on not just public or private education, but on issues we think are important, like proximity and community. We have a Catholic college with a reasonable reputation very close to us, and we think it might be a good option (even though neither of us &#8216;does&#8217; religion) for his needs at the moment. But if the fees get too much for us, I wouldn&#8217;t think twice about sending him to the public high school. The private fees will be a struggle, but not as much as for other &#8216;independent&#8217; schools in the region &#8212; that word makes me laugh, truly, when you factor in how much of our taxes go to them &#8212; but I&#8217;m doing this because the school is close and I think he&#8217;s strong enough to deal with having second-hand uniforms in exchange for some of their facilities. Our lives will be enriched by the extra time we all get to spend together and the reduction in worrying about ferrying and lifts. I wouldn&#8217;t send him off in a bus way across town to give him &#8216;the best&#8217;. Maybe I&#8217;m just lucky having two good schools, public and private, to choose from. But I find that &#8216;suicidal&#8217; thing in the second article very offensive and over-reactive: surely public school with a parent is *infinitely* better than private school and dead-parent trauma? Makes me feel ill, truly.</p>
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		<title>By: kate</title>
		<link>http://castironbalcony.media2.org/2009/04/14/the-home-atm-is-out-of-order-2-thinking-about-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-8143</link>
		<dc:creator>kate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 01:45:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://castironbalcony.media2.org/?p=634#comment-8143</guid>
		<description>Kath Lockett, I grew up in the Debney Park area and went to St Brendans primary (good in the early 80s, then not so much, haven&#039;t heard anything lately), followed by Ascot Vale primary (excellent, and the only two years of school that really worked for me) and then Ave Maria in West Essendon, which was crap. It was neat and tidy, but the general air was that students should work a bit and play netball, be well behaved and not aim too high. I had a few good teachers, but on the whole I was miserable. My primary school friend who went to Moonee Ponds Central and then Strathmore had a much better time of it, because those schools were better at dealing with diversity in the student population. They didn&#039;t object in the strongest possible terms to students having ideas and wanting to implement them. Debney Park has disadvantages in resourcing, but it does have teachers who like students, and who enjoy a challenge. Probably the best way to work out what your kid needs is to go to the schools for a tour and talk to the teachers as well as the principals. Then watch the way the teachers talk to the students. Walk past at lunchtime if you can, wait at the tramstop for a while and see how the teachers are dealing with the usual yard duty stuff.

I hated school, and it took me several years of uni to recover from it, which is why I feel a little ill at the idea of sending the kid to school at all. Hearing local teachers in our playgroup, who have older school age kids as well as the playgroup age ones, talking about what&#039;s wrong with our local schools hasn&#039;t done much to help. However, there&#039;s a new principal in town and things are looking up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kath Lockett, I grew up in the Debney Park area and went to St Brendans primary (good in the early 80s, then not so much, haven&#8217;t heard anything lately), followed by Ascot Vale primary (excellent, and the only two years of school that really worked for me) and then Ave Maria in West Essendon, which was crap. It was neat and tidy, but the general air was that students should work a bit and play netball, be well behaved and not aim too high. I had a few good teachers, but on the whole I was miserable. My primary school friend who went to Moonee Ponds Central and then Strathmore had a much better time of it, because those schools were better at dealing with diversity in the student population. They didn&#8217;t object in the strongest possible terms to students having ideas and wanting to implement them. Debney Park has disadvantages in resourcing, but it does have teachers who like students, and who enjoy a challenge. Probably the best way to work out what your kid needs is to go to the schools for a tour and talk to the teachers as well as the principals. Then watch the way the teachers talk to the students. Walk past at lunchtime if you can, wait at the tramstop for a while and see how the teachers are dealing with the usual yard duty stuff.</p>
<p>I hated school, and it took me several years of uni to recover from it, which is why I feel a little ill at the idea of sending the kid to school at all. Hearing local teachers in our playgroup, who have older school age kids as well as the playgroup age ones, talking about what&#8217;s wrong with our local schools hasn&#8217;t done much to help. However, there&#8217;s a new principal in town and things are looking up.</p>
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		<title>By: armagny</title>
		<link>http://castironbalcony.media2.org/2009/04/14/the-home-atm-is-out-of-order-2-thinking-about-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-8142</link>
		<dc:creator>armagny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 23:41:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://castironbalcony.media2.org/?p=634#comment-8142</guid>
		<description>Looking at where you live, I would not go to parkville but Strathmore. There&#039;s some well-researched inside info for you. Strathmore High is one of the best high schools in the state and although house prices nearby reflect this to an extent, you are not talking parkville or $400k to do it. Nearby Pascoe Vale South is nice, green and hilly and muchly within &#039;teh zone&#039;.

Or come up north/ northeast to Viewbank territory...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looking at where you live, I would not go to parkville but Strathmore. There&#8217;s some well-researched inside info for you. Strathmore High is one of the best high schools in the state and although house prices nearby reflect this to an extent, you are not talking parkville or $400k to do it. Nearby Pascoe Vale South is nice, green and hilly and muchly within &#8216;teh zone&#8217;.</p>
<p>Or come up north/ northeast to Viewbank territory&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Kath Lockett</title>
		<link>http://castironbalcony.media2.org/2009/04/14/the-home-atm-is-out-of-order-2-thinking-about-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-8141</link>
		<dc:creator>Kath Lockett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 10:21:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://castironbalcony.media2.org/?p=634#comment-8141</guid>
		<description>This is, as the understatement of this entire blog article and comments, a tough one.

Our wee one is in year four this year and, having just moved to Melbourne, within TWO DAYS of her starting I had the &#039;So what college are you going to send her to?&#039; question from four different sets of kids&#039; parents.  All with anxious eyes, as if my answer might influence their decision and vice versa.

Answer is - we don&#039;t know.  We have Debney Park high school in our street, but despite the inclusion in a story in the Saturday Age yesterday, it is not the cultural mix or the year 12 results that concern me, it is how utterly crappy and tiny the school is.  It is virtually a three-storey block of flats, some littered bitumen that is frequented by drunks and druggies out of hours and never cleaned up and a scrappy patch of grass that isn&#039;t big enough for a game of french cricket, let alone the real stuff.  

I am already in knots about whether to &#039;sacrifice&#039; a child to what seems like a poorly equipped school with a lot of social problems - is such a decision going to be worth that smug dinner party conversation in future?

My ex boss (who is a nationally recognised academic on work/life balance issues but has none herself and is the worst, most insecure and nasty person I&#039;ve ever worked for - let&#039;s just call her Professor Bulldog Peacock) used to brag endlessly in staff meetings that neither of her two teenage kids were going to private school.

.....yeah, that&#039;s because she and her partner had sold up their modest house in the Adelaide hills for a home in the &#039;catchment area&#039; for Adelaide&#039;s three finest high schools that cost them an additional $400,000.  When I put it to her that such a decision might be out of the realms of, oh I don&#039;t know, the &#039;low paid poor&#039; that she likes to witter on about publicly, the look on her face pretty well asked me if I wanted an oak casket or straight cremation.

However, do I bear to ignore my distaste about being too competitive and instead of mortgaging my left arse cheek to get into the right area, try to see if C can get into the much-discussed-but-never-seen &#039;University College&#039; in Parkville?  Legend has it that the school is so severely zoned that they even visit you at your home to check that you&#039;re not lying.  

We can&#039;t afford to live in Parkville (and nor do we want to) but *I&#039;d* be the one telling a fat one if I didn&#039;t say that, when the time comes, we won&#039;t be encouraging young C to sit their much-discussed-so-therefore-must-be-very-important selection tests.

Hubster Love Chunks and I are both products of large, unruly and disheveled country high schools and I don&#039;t wish that on my daughter.  Having seen a student passed out in the toilets (in year 9) due to aerosol inhalation and the police deciding to send in sniffer dogs to our the lockers on a regular basis, I can only thank my parents and mates for keeping me focussed and sane. Even then, if my father wasn&#039;t an actual teacher at the same school *shudder*.....  That&#039;s not to say that drugs, stupidity, bullying and lack of focus on studies won&#039;t happen at Poncy College or Groovy Govt, but it seems sadly very likely that such schools are better equipped and &#039;luckier&#039; in landing building grants, large donations, interested parents etc.

Paying for college is the utterly last resort for us.  Having only one child means that we could afford to do it, but the righteous self-entitlement I&#039;ve seen in the children of parents who did it (the richies in our home town were packed off to boarding school) made me sick.  I want C to enjoy the company of a range of people; not just rich knobs or brainiacs offered scholarships to beef up the VCE rankings.

What is the answer here?  Let the kid decide??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is, as the understatement of this entire blog article and comments, a tough one.</p>
<p>Our wee one is in year four this year and, having just moved to Melbourne, within TWO DAYS of her starting I had the &#8216;So what college are you going to send her to?&#8217; question from four different sets of kids&#8217; parents.  All with anxious eyes, as if my answer might influence their decision and vice versa.</p>
<p>Answer is &#8211; we don&#8217;t know.  We have Debney Park high school in our street, but despite the inclusion in a story in the Saturday Age yesterday, it is not the cultural mix or the year 12 results that concern me, it is how utterly crappy and tiny the school is.  It is virtually a three-storey block of flats, some littered bitumen that is frequented by drunks and druggies out of hours and never cleaned up and a scrappy patch of grass that isn&#8217;t big enough for a game of french cricket, let alone the real stuff.  </p>
<p>I am already in knots about whether to &#8216;sacrifice&#8217; a child to what seems like a poorly equipped school with a lot of social problems &#8211; is such a decision going to be worth that smug dinner party conversation in future?</p>
<p>My ex boss (who is a nationally recognised academic on work/life balance issues but has none herself and is the worst, most insecure and nasty person I&#8217;ve ever worked for &#8211; let&#8217;s just call her Professor Bulldog Peacock) used to brag endlessly in staff meetings that neither of her two teenage kids were going to private school.</p>
<p>&#8230;..yeah, that&#8217;s because she and her partner had sold up their modest house in the Adelaide hills for a home in the &#8216;catchment area&#8217; for Adelaide&#8217;s three finest high schools that cost them an additional $400,000.  When I put it to her that such a decision might be out of the realms of, oh I don&#8217;t know, the &#8216;low paid poor&#8217; that she likes to witter on about publicly, the look on her face pretty well asked me if I wanted an oak casket or straight cremation.</p>
<p>However, do I bear to ignore my distaste about being too competitive and instead of mortgaging my left arse cheek to get into the right area, try to see if C can get into the much-discussed-but-never-seen &#8216;University College&#8217; in Parkville?  Legend has it that the school is so severely zoned that they even visit you at your home to check that you&#8217;re not lying.  </p>
<p>We can&#8217;t afford to live in Parkville (and nor do we want to) but *I&#8217;d* be the one telling a fat one if I didn&#8217;t say that, when the time comes, we won&#8217;t be encouraging young C to sit their much-discussed-so-therefore-must-be-very-important selection tests.</p>
<p>Hubster Love Chunks and I are both products of large, unruly and disheveled country high schools and I don&#8217;t wish that on my daughter.  Having seen a student passed out in the toilets (in year 9) due to aerosol inhalation and the police deciding to send in sniffer dogs to our the lockers on a regular basis, I can only thank my parents and mates for keeping me focussed and sane. Even then, if my father wasn&#8217;t an actual teacher at the same school *shudder*&#8230;..  That&#8217;s not to say that drugs, stupidity, bullying and lack of focus on studies won&#8217;t happen at Poncy College or Groovy Govt, but it seems sadly very likely that such schools are better equipped and &#8216;luckier&#8217; in landing building grants, large donations, interested parents etc.</p>
<p>Paying for college is the utterly last resort for us.  Having only one child means that we could afford to do it, but the righteous self-entitlement I&#8217;ve seen in the children of parents who did it (the richies in our home town were packed off to boarding school) made me sick.  I want C to enjoy the company of a range of people; not just rich knobs or brainiacs offered scholarships to beef up the VCE rankings.</p>
<p>What is the answer here?  Let the kid decide??</p>
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		<title>By: blue milk</title>
		<link>http://castironbalcony.media2.org/2009/04/14/the-home-atm-is-out-of-order-2-thinking-about-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-8139</link>
		<dc:creator>blue milk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2009 14:29:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://castironbalcony.media2.org/?p=634#comment-8139</guid>
		<description>I found this post and the discussion it prompted absolutely fascinating. Still not sure where we&#039;re headed exactly with our child/children.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found this post and the discussion it prompted absolutely fascinating. Still not sure where we&#8217;re headed exactly with our child/children.</p>
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